3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

by Deleted user -
Number of replies: 34

Al salamu 3alaykom,
for whom it may concern

Me and my colleagues from 3rd year ,we were discussing some ideas about developing our college , through changing the ways of teaching and evaluations ... so ,I thought maybe it would be of use if I shared our thoughts -though they lack organization- with you, maybe someday somebody would apply them and some other students would benefit from them (hopefully us ! )

the whole discussion started with reading this :

لاول مرة ممتحنين من الكلية الملكية فى مصر لمساعدة اطباء الاسنان لاجتياز امتحان الزماله بسبب تدني معدلات نجاح أطباء الاسنان المصريين في اجتياز امتحانات الزمالة وهذا مخالف لما هو موجود في العالم كلة حيث ان علي سبيل المثال نسبة النجاح في امتحان الزمالة في الاردن 80 % و للاسف في مصر لا ترقي حتي الي 10%

Here are some of our comments ( pardon us for being very frank, but I guess the 1st way of solving problems is being honest with yourself and admitting that there is actually a problem ! ) please take your time in reading :

Manar El Naggar:ماهو لو كنا بنتعلم عدل ممكنش دا بقى حالنا..

Mohamed Ramly و بردو لو احنا كنا بنذاكر عدل مكانش زمان ده حالنا !!

Mahmoud Atya : ولا بنتعلم ولا بنذاكر . اكتر سنة حسيت انها فراغ وعلى الفاضي

Manar El Naggar

والله هم اسلوبهم في تعليمنا مش (انتيريستينج ).. بالمرة.. يعني لو بنتعلم زي الناس المحترمة كنا ه حنحب العلم واحنا اللي ه نسعى نتعلم اكتر .. هنا يسدو نفسك .. يعلموك كلام متناقض .. احفظ و صم.. خش كب اللي حفظته ( دا لو كنت حفظت اصلا ) .. و شكرا

Mohamed Ramly انت صح , بس هل احنا مش مقصريين؟!!

Mohamed Ramly انا عن نفسي مقصر للصبح :D

Manar El Naggarطب عندكم حل يا جماعه بدل ما احنا كلنا مقصرين ( ونفتخر ) كدا :D

Mohamed Ramly نبتدي بجديه من اول السنه اللي جايه بحيس نواجه اي تقصير من جانب التدريس و ربنا يعوضنا عن اللي فات

Khalid Ibrahimنفس اللي بنقوله كل سنة يا رملي .

Manar El Naggar:

هم لو يشاركونا معاهم في مناقشاتهم .. وتحضير المحاضرات وناخد فكرة عن (الرسايل ) اللي بتتحضر . افتكر دي هتفرق معانا يعني.. ويغيرو اسلوب شرحهم .. و الامتحانات تكون (ام سي كيو ) .. بلا حفظ بلا بتاع بقى

Mohamed Ramly و انا كنت ناوي اعمل مجموعه مذاكره تبع السيكشن بتاعنا اول السنه اللي جايه

Hossam Eldeen

الامتحان ده مشكلته في طريقة الأسئلة بس...يعني احنا متعودين مثلا نمتحن فارما لوحدها وباطنة لوحدها وكدة...الامتحان ده بقة فارما واوبرتف وكراون واندو وارثو وبروثيزيز وباطنة كله في نفس الوقت...والسؤال الواحد حتى لو ام سي كيو ..عمره ماييجي على م...ادة واحدة

يبقى ييجي شخص عنده (السيستيميك ديزيز ) الفلاني وبياخد العلاج الفلاني.. اللي اعراضة الجانبية المفروض اصلا انت حافظها وعنده مثلا
(class II div. 2 )and needs an ortho appliance...what's the best treatment plan?? :Dحاجات كدا خرافه يعني
..
ممكن احنا عندنا المعلومات بس متعودناش نجمعهم في الصورة دي

Manar El Naggar

احنا يبدأولنا مثلا بنسبه معينه من اسئلة التجميعات دي في نص امتحان كله (ام سي كيو ) فقط لا غير ومع الوقت والتعود هيبقى عادي بالنسبالنا ان شاء الله

لو الامتحان جي كدا .. غصب عن الواحد هيشغل مخه يعني ويغير طريقة المذاكرة .. اللي وقتها هتبقى قائمة على التجميع والفهم.. مش الحفظ .. بس هم يبدأو

Mahmoud Atya

كلامكم صح فعلا .. احب اضيف اننا اتعودنا على الحفظ ممكن كمان احفظ بدون ما افهم .. مثلا في الباثولوجي .. ال AOT

بقيت احفظ المعلومة الفلانية في السطر الفلاني .. واحاول اعمل تجميعة لنفس المرض الواحد ... عشان اما يقولي .. كر اللي تعرفو .. اعرف اك...ر في الامتحان ..

لكن حد عمره شاف (حالة ) في العياده او صورة كلينيك للمريض ب المرض دا ؟؟ ابدا ّ!! كله كلام على الورق .. وعندك امثلة من كدا كتير ..

Manar El Naggar علي الاقل في الباثولوجي كنا بنشوف حالات

الباطنه بقي اللي محاضراتها كانت ممتعه فعلا !!ولا صوره توحد ربنا :S

نظام فاااااااااااشل قائم علي الحفظ

Marina Raafatدراستنا اكاديميك زياده عن اللزوم .. والامتحان بيجي كلينيكال.. واحنا بناخد العلم من غير ما نربطو ودي مش غلطتنا اوي (هم لاحظه المشكله دي في بشري ونظامهم الجديد مفهوش المواد دي مفرطة كدا .. انما سيستم على بعضه بكل اللي فيه ).. يعني همغلطانين بنسبه 80% مثلا .. بس هم حتى مش سيبنلنا وقت ننمي فيه نفسنا من كتر الريكويرمنتس و المشاريع المطلوبه مننا !!..

Mahmoud Atya

طيب يا جماعه في الحالة دي مش المفروض بقى .. اننا نشاركهم وضع المحاضرات حتى لو بنسبة بسيطة جدا ؟؟؟

Manar El Naggar

مانا كنت لسة بقترح كدا من شوية .. احنا عاوزين قاعده معاهم كدا

Mohamed El-Safy

رملي !! ولو ذاكرنا اكتر واكتر !! هتكون ايه النتيحة ؟؟

Marina Raafat

لو ذاكرنا اكتر هنجيب احسن في الامتحان بس مش هنكون اطورنا في حاجة

Mohamed El-Safy

طيب .. احنا داحينا كتير ! .. لكن مش هنفهم مهنتنا بردو !!

Marina Raafat

الموضوع محتاج مننا نعرف العلم وصل لفين في كل حاجة وازاي نطبق اللي بناخده عمليا في العيادة .. ويكون عندنا مواد تعليمية وتوضيحية .. زي فيديوهات .. ونشوف ونطلع على اخر الابحاث

حاجات كتير اوي نقصانا .. واحنا للاسف في الغالب بنشتغل العملي دا بالبركة كدا

Mahmoud Atya

طيب .. لو الكلام بجد بقى ... ممكن نبدأ في المشروع دا ازاي ؟؟

احنا كنا لسة بنتكلم انا وزمايلي .. يبقى على الاقل .. محاضرات الترم الاول كلها و الهاند اوت بتاعها يكونو جاهزين قبل بداية الدراسة .. ونكلمهم مثلا لو احتاجونا في عمل الباوربوي...نت . او اننا نجيبلهم صور او مواد علمية يعرضوها في المحاضرات .. و تكون لنا مرجع بردو .. متهيالي في الحالة دي .. ممكن نفرض عليهم حاجات احنا شايفنها صح او غلط .. الى حد ما ..

ولا انا بحلم ???

Marina Raafat
ك حل مبدئي ممكن جدا انما علي المدي البعيد الموضوع محتاج اختيار للدكاتره
انا مش قصدي بالاختيار الكوسه و الكلام ده . انا قصدي بس ان الدكتور يكون عنده مهارات شوية و يكون
open minded
مش اي حد علشان دحيح يبقي دكتور يعلم اجيال

Manar El Naggar ‎: كنت لسة بتكلم في الموضوع دا قريب والله .. بس انا بعدت جامد بتفكيري تقريبا.. ان المفروض الطلبة عندك من 4-5 سنوات تعملولهم تقييم مستمر تقيسوا فيه المهارات مش المذاكرة بس... عمل الابحاث والقدرة على الفهم وتوصيل المعلومة . وووو .. الخ.. وشوف احسنهم .. تبعا لتقييم معين وواضح ..و شوف اعلاهم في المستوي الدراسي و التقدير واختار منهم المعيدين حتى .. مش الدح لوحده هو المقياس .. في اختيار المعيدين

Manar El Naggar:

غير انه هيحسن مستوى المعيدين .. هيرفع كتير مستوى الطلبة اللي مش هياخدو الفرصة انهم يبقو معيدين‎

Marina Raafat

في امريكا بيعملو كدا فعلا .. انا ابن خالتي في كلية طب هناك والموضوع (جنب الدراسة والتفوق طبعا ) لازم الانشطة والمهارات الاجتماعية و الشخصية .. والمهارات التعليمية .... ومهارات التعليم الذاتي والتقييم الشخصي طول الوقت

من اول ما يدخل الكلية لغايه ما يخلص .. ودا السبب ان الدكتور عندهم يعني (دكتور

George Adel

شباب انا من وجهة نظري ان سبب الفشل بتاع دكتور الاسنان في مصر هو المناهج اللي بندرسها وطريقه تدريسها وطريقه الامتحانات و ده انا عرفته مش بسبب موضوع الزماله ده لا ده انا عرفته من ساعه ما دخلت امتحان البورد اللي اتعمل في نص السنه ومحدش عرف يحل حاجه خالص وده بينلي قد ايه مناهجنا فاشله وطريقه وضع الاسئله بتاعتنا فاشله برده ... وانا شايف ان الحل هو ان لو الناس اللي بيعلمونا خايفين علي مستقبلنا لازم يغيرو او يعدلو من المناهج بحيث ان هي تشابه المناهج الناجحه في طب الاسنان علي مستوي

العالم و يحاولو يساعدونا في العملي شويه لان انا بحس ان هما بيهملونا اوي وخصوصا في سكشن الاوبراتيف
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thank you so much for your time,,, hope you enjoyed !
In reply to Deleted user

Re: 3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

by Deleted user -

Dear Students :

I totally understand your complaints and I know there are some defects in the education process which need improvment and renewal .....actually it can not come easy ,,,,It is not easy to change a pattern of teaching through a year or two ....the courses should be re-evaluated by the own dept provided that all prof and a3da2 magles el kesm  sit together to add or remove from course what is really should be added or removed ...also the methods of teaching should be discussed to have a unified pattern at least for each dept ...I  am saying this and I know that it is not easy to ask somebody to change 3alatool...it might happen but in the near future......also I think all dept should train the students on the style of their practical ,clinical and written exams ...it is not acceptible to have an exam containing new ideas first seen in the exam ....departments should be aware of this ...this can be done by a committee which should have a member in each dept with monthly meeting to ensure the supervision of this process....actually you have many good suggestions and think in a broader way but definitely u also should organize your selves ,study well from the begining of the world .....there is no faculty in the world contains all ideal professors and ideal teaching methods ....do not forget that the defect might be in the schools and different methods of teaching in schools and before entering faculty... generally it  is complicated .....I am sure the adminstration and many prof are trying to get things better for you but also I know things need more time to be better .Do your best and study well ...we shall try to do better suggestions for the next year isa and good luck 

In reply to Deleted user

Re: 3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

by Deleted user -
أولا احنا بنشكر حضرتك جدا وانا والله كنت متأكد ان الرد الاول هيكون من قسم الباثولوجي :)
ثانيا احنا عارفين ان التغيير هيكون صعب بس احنا لازم نعمل اللي في ايدينا وربنا يوفق
علشان كده احنا حاليا بنجهز بعض الافكار الواقعية وهنجمعها وننظمها ونعرضها على الدكاترة الاسبوع الجاي
ولو مقدرناش نغير كتير فيكفينا ان السنة الجاية تكون احسن من السنة اللي فاتت وان شاء الله تكون دي بداية التغيير الحقيقي في نظام التعليم عندنا ... والله الموفق والمستعان
In reply to Deleted user

Re: 3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

by Prof. Maha El Tantawi - -
Salam Alekom All
My God, you people are really full of Energy!!!! I was really looking forward for a semi- quiet summer. However, having the great THIRD YEAR class moving into the most senior FOURTH YEAR class would make this virtually impossible smile

Your suggestions are really interesting. The improvements you suggest fall into teaching methods, involvement in research and assessment methods, right?
I dont think there are any objections to what you suggest. Maybe we can start doing a little bit in each aspect. I already talked with Manar, Esraa and Fatma about some of these things.

Here are my suggestions and I am sure other Drs can add and do more:
  • Teaching method: I still remember the experience we had in teaching Epidemiology in the first term. Dr Wafaa and myself really enjoyed it. We asked for a formal assessment by you about this experiment because if you think it was good, it can be replicated. What makes it interesting from our point of view is that it contained the least possible amount of knowledge and asked you to practically apply this knowledge into different situations so the emphasis would not be on memorization but on intellectual skills. This stresses self learning, group work, interaction and problem solving. Because I believe in research, I still think it needs scientific assessment. What I suggest is to work around this theme in Dental Public Health course in the 4th year. This will take a lot of work and we need evidence to convince the Drs that it can work. If it succeeds, maybe other depts would be interested in trying it.
  • Assessment: to develop the MCQs you mentioned, we can use two strategies: online exams or the exams marked by the OMR machine (where you shade the circles). Al hamd lellah, you tried both and would know how they work. Both methods provide you with statistics about each question, how it was difficult, how many answered it, if it can differentiate between high and low performing students and so on so you can keep a good question and remove faulty ones. I suggest we formally start the development of a question bank for the faculty. Dr Fayza El Abbassi (responsible for the OMR) and myself were just starting to work on a document to explain the meaning and implications of these statistics so we can use the MCQs you had in the exams effectively. You can definitely help in this- it needs reading and research and your feedback about timing, layout and other attributes of MCQs plus their advantages and disadvantages in relation to other types of questions. Nobody knows if you really like/ prefer the short notes or the MCQs and how this will affect your grades.
  • Research: the best way to get involved with research is to read research. I suggest those among you who are willing form a group to assess the research going on in the Faculty and provide a 250- words summary of each study to be posted on our website. If you do this, all of us can better know who does what in research, what are the most common types of study. You also acquire the skill of making a concise summary. You can even vote the best study. Another suggestion is that you can help in some studies. I mean like preparing specimens, screening patients to see who fit the inclusion criteria, taking saliva sample,.... Maybe you can also see how researchers write papers, make coinclusions and, add references, submit a paper for publication and so on

Now, I have ran out of suggestions- at least for now. Tell me what you think and what seems interesting for you so we can start.
In reply to Prof. Maha El Tantawi -

Re: 3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

by Deleted user -
those are really great ideas , and i guess that they need us to be involved , so when can we start ? :D
In reply to Deleted user

Re: 3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

by Prof. Maha El Tantawi - -
Each one should indicate which idea is he/ she interested in.Do you need me to create a choice so everyone can check which activity he is interested in?
In reply to Prof. Maha El Tantawi -

Re: 3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

by Deleted user -
that will be great.
In reply to Deleted user

Re: 3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

by Deleted user -
Thank you Dr Manal for your concern :)

but allow me to say please... the reason why I posted our conversation was to give you an idea about the way we think, what are our complaints and fears and how we think we can actually manage to solve these problems( not only complaining I mean )

we need to have professors along with us whom we can work with in order to make things better eventually...

I know it's not that easy, but maybe if you (and I mean by you: all professors ) listened to us, I'm sure you would find easier solutions from us, a great will from young people full of energy and need to change the world to a better place

I know it needs time, but things will never be accomplished if we don't start fixing them as soon as possible

bottomline, we want to see or college a better place and we have the potentials that make it that way, we just need some care and appreciation to or thoughts

and be sure that we are willing to be better in studying and being better at college :)

thanks again
In reply to Deleted user

Re: 3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

by Deleted user -
Dear Doctors if I may interrupt :)

I just wanted to share a few thoughts concerning our teaching system.

Concerning the actual teaching methods, I've discovered that the "data show" although a useful tool, does not fit the requirements, and is by far the least interactive method for 2 reasons:

1) Everything is written so it does not encourage us to think
2) The way the slides are written, with huge amounts of information in small font and no pictures or illustrations, so then, even reading would be impossible.

According to universities abroad, the criteria of a single slide it to have no more than 6 sentences in a slide, and not more that 7 words per sentence. If you'd like to see something similar to what I'm describing perhaps you could have a look at my group presentation from the first term (I tried my best to follow international criteria).

Another problem with data show, as I mentioned, is that it is not interactive. Simply typing out the curriculum is not enough. In my opinion, there should be 3D illustrations, videos, diagrams, links we could visit for more information, etc...
With the large number of students, it's quite difficult to be able to interest them all by using only one method.

Second, concerning the lecturers themselves. Now, with all due respect, teaching is a talent - some have it, and some don't - which is exactly the case in Dentistry. Although a lecturer may be a genius in his or her field, that does not mean that s/he is able to teach that field. This only means that when hiring young graduates, the assessment should not be according to grades only, but to actual teaching abilities (because the word professor implies a teaching position, and therefore implies the person's teaching abilities.)
In my humble opinion, this particular problem was created by 2 methods:

1) Hiring the junior staff based mainly, actuallym only, on their grades and ability to memorize, neglecting whether they are able to teach or even if they truly UNDERSTAND what they are saying.
2) And this is a more sensitive topic concerning the degree of familial relation of the prospective young dentist and those hiring, and I'm sure my point is clear. In my dealings with some junior staff, some, and not all, were found to be lacking in both knowledge as well as teaching ability, which is a disaster, in my opinion.

Third, Assessment. This year, and throughout past years, I've noticed that exams do not cover the whole curriculum, do not encourage thinking, do not assess actual understanding rather than ability to memorize. Allow me to elaborate:

The exams (for example, oral pathology this year) was not written in a way that distributed the entire curriculum. Instead, many questions were concerning the "pulp" chapter which was only 2 lectures, while chapters like "cyst and tumors" were almost completely neglected. Not to mention the fact that writing short notes, and this applies to all subjects, is simply no longer a method of assessment, since it relies entirely on memorization.
Another example, the crown exam last year which contained almost 20 to 25 mcqs on Dental Biomaterials neglecting the actual crown curriculum completely, was by far, a complete disaster.

Another issue is the MCQ questions. I've noticed in the past 4 years of college that many times the questions require proofreading and some of them make no sense at all. One of the biggest issues is the "choose the BEST answer" because obviously there is some sort of discrepancy concerning the "best" answer because in many cases all four answers are perfectly logical and no answer is "more" right that the others.

Last but not least, I just wanted to mention that the curricula themselves need proofreading because there are so many repeated topics. For example, we've studied the "rubber dam" in Operative once, Endo Once, and crown once more. So perhaps all the extra, redundant parts of different curricula should be revised because eventually it becomes boring and uninteresting.

Those are my humble thoughts, and I hope they are of use in the coming years.

Thank You :)
In reply to Deleted user

Re: 3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

by Deleted user -
well, I cant be grateful enough for our dear drs who replied earlier :):)

and i cant agree more to every single word mentioned by our colleagues here...

so I just have one single idea ...why don't we make summer lectures about anything scientific presented by US to our DEAR DRS and colleagues trying our best to show them -humbly -the way we want lectures to be like and trying to experience "the possibility of it's application " ourselves...

so how about making a one summer scientific day for our class..and every one could give lectures on what ever they want to as long as it's scientific and interesting ?

I think this experiment would give a lot to our skills
and would be beneficial as well if our dear drs
would kindly approve to attend ..
and some drs like dr shar el sheikh,dr manal el noaem and dr maha tantawi of course they should be on stage showing not attending of course giving examples to other staff members ..

I would really love to see our words put into actions ...

that's my humble idea what do you think ?


In reply to Deleted user

Re: 3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

by Deleted user -
Dear Dr Maha......
Thnx 4 ur concern and reply. :)...i'm really sooo interested in the Research activity., iwanna particibate isAllah
In reply to Deleted user

Re: 3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

by Deleted user -
فكرة جميلة ان احنا نتكلم في المشاكل و نحاول نطلعلها حلول و يارب يكون في استجابة
انا ممكن اكون شايف الموضوع بشكل مختلف شوية بس انا مش حاسس ان هيا طريقة تدريس و محاضرات و كده
احنا لو بصينا للكلية علي انها مؤسسة ليها ادارة تتمثل في العميد والوكيل والاقسام يبقي اكيد هما المسؤلين علي وضع الكلية بالايجاب او السلب
يعني اي ادارة ناجحة في الدنيا بيبقي عندها خطط و ضوابط والتزامات .. في اولويات وفي ثواب وعقاب للي اشتغل واللي قصر و طبعا في وسيلة تقييم واقعية هي اللي توضح النتيجة دي
لكن في الكلية وان الطلبة بصفتهم المتلقين للمعلومة واللي المفروض رايهم هو اساس نجاح المنظومة او لا لا لا لا ...
احنا بنلاقي القسم اللي بيادى واجبه ودول قليلين الصراحة بس موجودين و بنشكرهم علي كده
بس نلاقي بقي الباقي المقصر لابيتحاسب عن تقصير ولا عن انحدار مستوي الطلبة في المادة دي .. بنلاقي بس مبررات زى الفلوس و البلد وضعها كده والدكاترة يشكرو علي كده واحنا والله بنحاول من زمان وكلام كتير مالوش اي نتيجة او فايدة ..
طبعا احنا عارفين ان ده مش بيتغير بين يوم وليلة بس احنا مفيش خطوة اخدناها او بالتحديد الادارة لكده .
مثلا قبل بداية الترم التاني وقفنا في الكلية وقلنا عايزين كذا و كذا وقعدنا مع الدكاترة و كل الطلبة قالت افكارها و كان في تصورات لاقسام معينة ولتطوير حاجات في الكلية وكان الموضوع سهل والافكار موجودة واتوافق عليها بعد كده في مجلس الكلية ... طيب هل حصل منها حاجة ؟؟؟
هل كان في التزام باي كلمة اتقالت ؟؟؟؟؟
بالعكس الامور كانت اسوا بعد كده وده كان واضح في امتحان اخر السنة وبعض امتحانات الشفوي
الكلية متعاملتش مع مشاكل الطلبة .. الكلية حاولت تهدي الطلبة لحد ما نكمل النة وربنا يبقي يسهل بعد كده
طب بشري مش احسن حال مننا بس لما دكتور باطنة اساء لمريضة الدنيا قامت عندهم والدكتور راح اتاسف للمريضة وامتنع عن دخول الامتحانات شفوي او نظري عشان محدش يحس ان هو حيستقصدو .. احنا عندنا العكس المتجان كان صعب عشان انتو كطلبة تفرحوا بالثورة .. الكلمة دي اتقالت وسط لجنة امتحان .. وناس لما تدخل الشفوي تتسال انتو كنتوا واقفين في المنور مع اللي بيهتفوا ولا لأ .. اكيد عندنا حاجات كان ممكن يعملها الدكاترة الافاضل اهم من الاسئلة دي او التهكم علي اللي كان بيحصل .
في الاخر ... الكلية لازم تعرف تقيم وضعها كويس ونعرف ايه اخطانا و ادارتنا كانت صح ولا لأ ..
احنا كطلبة عارفين الادارة كانت ناجحة ولافاشلة في ادارتها للكلية ...
و يارب الامور تتحسن ونشوف بلدنا احسن من كده

In reply to Deleted user

Re: 3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

by Deleted user -
أحب اعقب بس على كلام زميلي محمود الطويل ...أنا موافقه بشدة في كل اللي قاله وعايز بس اشرك حضراتكم وجهة نظري المتواضعة من واحد من "ممثلي الدفعة " في الترم اللي فات

اللي كان نفسي اوصله للسادة اعضاء هيئة التدريس إن سبب الوقفات كان نفس سبب المظاهرات ... عدم وجود أو فقدان الثقة في كل من له منصب في البلد لأننا ماكانش حد فينا حاسس إن صوته له قيمة ولا إن احنا مهمين في الكلية دي ... وأكبر دليل على كده إن في أي حاجة كان الأساتذة بيقولوا قدامي : "اوعي تسمعي كلام الطلبة يا دكتورة " وال دكتور ترد تقول : "أيوه فعلا يا دكتور معاك حق ماكانش المفروض نسمع كلامهم أصلا "
ولما اعتراضنا على الجدول اتقالنا في شئون الطلبة : " حاجة تقرف واللهِ ما احنا كل سنة بنعمل الجدول وماكانش حد بيعترض " ... والحقيقة اللي هو مش عايز يقتنع بيها إن كنا كل سنة بنعترض لكن بما إن مالناش صوت وماحدش عايز يسمعنا فـكنا بنسكت ..كل ده لحد ماقامت الثورة وكنا فاكرين إن ممكن نشارك الادارة والأساتذة بما إن ده مستشفى تعليمي والطالب

حاجة كمان عايز اعلق عليها هي معاملة البعض للطلبة اللي بتحسسنا إن احنا عبء ومالناش مكان في كليتنا وإن احنا مالناش قيمة ولا رأي في الكلية .. يعني إزاي دكتور في الكلية يقول حد من الممثلين :"يلا يا ثورجي ورينا حتعمل إيه ؟ شكلك حتشرفنا في الصيف ؟" .. على كده المفروض أنا مثلا أو زمايلي محمود عطية ومنار النجار المفروض نخاف إن احنا ممكن نسقط احنا كمان ؟
طبعا أنا عارف إن دي بتبقى حوادث فردية ومش معنى كده إن كل الناس في الكلية كده لكن دي حاجة ماينفعش يتسكت عليها سواء كانت تخصني أو تخص حد من زمايلي

حاجة مهمة بس إن أي حاجة عملناها ملهاش أي قيمة عشان الكلية مش معترفة بيه زي ماحصل في مجلس الاقسام وإن ماحدش يبلغنا وكان لازم نعترض على عدم شرعية الطلب اللي كانوا مختارينهم وكمان مجلس الكلية اللي برده محدش بيبلغنا بيه وفي أي حاجة بيتقالنا يلا بقى إنتوا مش عندكم لجنة ورونا حتعملوا بيها إيه ... فلو هي مش حتتاخد بجدية يبقى إيه لازمته طيب ؟

حاجة اخيرا بس أنا حبيت أقول إن النقد مش عيب ولا غلط طالما في حدود الادب - وأنا حاولت قدر الإمكان التزم بده فلو حد فاهم غير كده فأنا بعتذر عن سوء التفاهم وأنا قصدي خير إن شاء الله - وأرجو إن الكلام ده يتاخد بمحمل الجدية لإني أنا و زمايلي مش عايزين غير كل حاجة كويسة للكلية واللي فيها

ومش معنى إن يكون في نقد إن مايكونش في تقدير لاي مجهود في مصلحة الطلاب وآخد بالشكر قسم الباثولوجي ووقوف الأساتذة والعميدة معانا في مشكلة الدرجات وغيرها من المشاكل وطبعا مننساش قسم الكوميونتي ودكتور مها طنطاوي ودكتور وفاء عصام على مجهودهم معانا

ناسف على الإطالة وشكرا لحسن تعاون حضراتكم

In reply to Deleted user

Re: 3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

by Deleted user -
me too .
In reply to Deleted user

Re: 3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

by Deleted user -
السلام عليكم
اول حاجه بشكر دكتور منال ودكتور مها انهم اهتمو بكلامنا ودا دايما بيحصل من قسم الباثولوجي وقسم طب المجتمع . ومع احترامي لكل الاقسام والاداره في الكليه انا موافقه على كل كلمه قالها زمايلي محمد وخالد . احنا الكليه فضلنا فيها سنه ان شاء الله وهنمشي منها بس نفسنا اننا نعمل حاجه وان المنظومه تطور وتخرجنا من حاله احنا فيها دي حالة يأس وفقدان امل . مفروض كان الردود هنا كانت تبقى على اقتراحات اننا نطور كليتنا ونرفع اسمها لان دايما ومهما كانت كليه وحشه او حلوه فاحنا هنبقى خريجي جامعه الاسكندريه اللي نفسنا تبقى احسن جامعه في عالم . بس علشان اي حاجه تتغير لازم نبدأ من بدايه خالص . واتمنى من اداره وداكترنا انهم ينفهمو كلامنا وميتقلش علينا تاني اننا شويه عيال وجايين نمشي كلمنا على كليه . بالعكس احنا حتى لو عيال فاحنا بنجب بلدنا وكليتنا ومنحبش انهم يبقو في وضع ده زي 10% نسبه نجاح في بورد وان ماليزيا بتفكر تلغي تعاقدها معانا لتدني مستوانا . مصر اكبر من كده كتير من اصغر لاكبر مؤسسه فيها . وحاجات دي محتاجه وقت بس اهم حاجه اننا نبدا والاداره تساعدنا وتغير من كل سلبيات موجوده . :)
In reply to Deleted user

Re: 3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

by Prof. Maha El Tantawi - -
السلام عليكم يا سارة
يعنى ايه "وان ماليزيا بتفكر تلغي تعاقدها معانا لتدني مستوانا"؟

ممكن اعرف مصدر الكلام ده؟
 
In reply to Prof. Maha El Tantawi -

Re: 3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

by Deleted user -
dr maha :) we read this in elnahar 2day en malisia nawya tl3'e t3a2odha m3a masr whtt3a2d m3a el ordon :( wdah el link
http://www.alnaharegypt.com/nhar/art8613-cat20.html
:(:(
In reply to Deleted user

Re: 3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

by Prof. Maha El Tantawi - -
I see
I have always wondered about the way media phrase their news or comments. I think half of our problems is because of the way they do their business.
Thanks for the info Sarah
In reply to Deleted user

Re: 3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

by Deleted user -
dr. maha
please , there are many comments more impotatnt than this comment we should talk about and we want reply mn elkolya 3aleeha
In reply to Prof. Maha El Tantawi -

Re: 3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

by Deleted user -
Dr Maha the issue of Malaysia is all over the news and is common knowledge.

Dr Maha what about all the other issues that we mentioned in our comments? about not being taken seriously, being threatened that we're going to fail, to be belittled and insulted and not taken seriously and for granted? Aren't these things a little more important or at least a greater priority than the issue of Malaysia?
To tell you the truth doctor, I'm disappointed at the response. Nevetheless, thank you for your concern and rapid reply.

Concerning Malaysia or even National students, it's common knowledge Dr Maha that we are far from receiving an adequate education, whether it be the horrible conditions of the labs, inexperienced lecturers and junior staff, lack of resources, useless technicians who don't know what they are doing, etc...

Anyway, once again, I know our voice has reach whom it may concern, and thank you once again.
In reply to Deleted user

Re: 3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

by Prof. Maha El Tantawi - -
I am sorry you are disapponited Khaled. Maybe I dont read news or maybe I know one or two things that disagree with this well known news and this is why I was surprised. The news you mention also confirm my beliefs that not everything written or mentioned in the media is necessarily true.

I will not go into these fights. I decided that I am not very good at this. I see you people are over the exams and full of energy. If you want to spend your time complaining or feeling insulted and going all over again into a continuous state of revolution, this is your decision. I have done nothing wrong to apologise for. I heard of some of the things you mention but it is up to the people who did them to repent and change their ways or persist and continue. I do not control/ manage them. I also know that passing this semester was a miracle concerning all things that have happened. I have spent enough time and energy trying to patch things up but am now wiser hopefully.

I will spend my time doing what I know best: working to help improve the very bad education you seem to resent so much because I know I have quite a number of capable and honest colleagues who are willing to give it a try. If any of you want to join me in this, he/ she is more than welcome. I can unnderstand this and can help with this. I believe good deeds are more important than words especially if these words were said before. In difficult times, I want to be absolutely sure I have done everything I can do to help my country before I ask others to be better leaders or followers.
In reply to Prof. Maha El Tantawi -

Re: 3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

by Deleted user -
dear dr maha :) we r not fighting or complaining .. wjust wanna make our faculty better and we won't benefit from this cause what we r pointing 2 needs so much time and effort when it comes true we will be out of this organization. we wanna do that cause we have faith and believes that we can make differance .. thnx dr
In reply to Prof. Maha El Tantawi -

Re: 3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

by Deleted user -
What I meant that the remainder of the comments were not even mentioned, it was never my intention that you take sides or say your opinion. In fact, all I was looking for was "Your posts will be sent to those concerned", nothing more, nothing else. In no way did I ask to be patched up. My disappointment was because the issues that matter - to my colleagues and myself at least - were neglected, and it only instilled my feeling of insignificance in the eyes of my professors. I never a demanded an apology from anyone either, so maybe my point wans't clear enough in my other posts but that was not my intention.

I just want to comment on something, if you please. I disagree to the fact that anyone might think that we are full of energy and that we want to spend time complaining or feeling insulted or going into a revolution, for several reasons: We or should I say, I, do not want to just complain, I want to change what I see wrong, and I do not "want" to feel insulted, or live in some drama, I just thought that my concerns are the faculty's concerns.

Anyway, allow me to apologize for flooding the forum with things that do you do not want to be a part of, and I'll try to find the right channels for what I want to do. So once again, thank you for replying and sorry for wasting your time :)

Just an afterthought I want to add, if you don't mind. We do work, and have worked the past term and tried to implement what we, at first, complain about, but there are certain negatives that wouldd always stand in our way, and since,as it is now clear to me, this is not the place for them, threfore I will not mention them.
In reply to Deleted user

Re: 3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

by Prof. Maha El Tantawi - -
I, too, want you to have a chance to make a difference as Sarah said. I talked earlier about the remainder of the comments you and your colleagues posted. I proposed some activities that may help, made a space for them on the front page of the elearning so everybody can choose whatever he/ she will be interested to do but need time before I can announce them. I try to make things instead of talk about them and I know this is what you too want. This is what I can do and I know my plans take time and you want immediate change. I talk about what I am directly involved in and what I can help with. Maybe the issues I didnt comment on concern others. This does not mean they were neglected or should instill feelings of insignificance. It means it concerns other people and they are better able to solve them.

Your posts are actually read by those concerned so I dont need to send them. The matter I asked sarah about is related directly to you all as I explained many times before. All you ask for needs funding. Without this, nothing can happen. You talk about bad labs, technicians you cant find and lecture halls that are crowded. Dont you think that having a bit of extra money can help in improving these? From where I sit, this money is already used to the EGYPTIAN not only MALAYSIAN students benefits in many ways.

Again, you people are full of Energy. Please try to use it effectively and efficiently. Tension and nervousness may make some people like myself not want to take part of it although I try my best always to help.
In reply to Prof. Maha El Tantawi -

Re: 3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

by Deleted user -
Your advice is duly noted and appreciated, and will be taken into consideration. Thank you Dr Maha..
In reply to Deleted user

Re: 3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

by Prof. Wafaa Essameldin - -

Dear Khaled and all dear 3rd year students

Welcome back guys !! I really missed your discussions and conversations since you were all busy with the exams.First of all, I am very glad Manar posted your conversation because I am one of those who have no account on the face book and therefore, the forum is my only way to communicate with you on line. Secondly, you should not be upset of what Dr.Maha said because I know she means the positive sense of being energetic and revolutionary.So please don't get any wrong ideas.You are absolutely right about your complaints especially if there are some professors who still insult or threaten you which I think is very weird !! We all know you want the best for our faculty and I am sure you are the right students for the change because you are remarkable people.  I am very happy with your wonderful thoughts, ideas and solutions for many of the problems you confronted this year. However, I think you are mainly upset because 3rd year is full of medical and academic subjects which are mostly not interesting to anybody. The first step in reform is to discuss things as you are doing now but in a more practical way. Everyone of you can make a kind of plan or proposal for the idea he/she thinks it can solve a problem whether in teaching methods,assignments, assessment or even curriculum content. As for research, it would be great if any of you comes up with a simple topic or research idea that could be actually executed in our field because I don't know about the other departments. I will be very happy to have assistance from younger and enthusiastic colleagues as yourselves. By the way, participation of undergraduate students in scientific research is actually a requirement for faculty accreditation!!! So, don't think your ideas are not taken seriously because they matter for the sake of our faculty and our country !!! Finally, do not underestimate yourselves because Egyptian students are really a big success whenever they go for student exchange or postgraduate studies in any foreign country. This is not only my opinion but their opinion,too. Let us have a little vaccation and then start working things out !!!!     

In reply to Prof. Wafaa Essameldin -

Re: 3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

by Deleted user -
Thank you Dr Wafaa for your reply.

I've signed up for one of the summer activities (choice number 10 - collecting data to know how much it costs to produce a dentist). I'd like to know what exactly the nature of the activity will be, and if there are any other activities in which I could participate.
In reply to Deleted user

Re: 3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

by Prof. Wafaa Essameldin - -

Hi Khaled

I am not really sure about the exact data you should be collecting. I think Dr Maha should have posted all needed information about the subject. Anyway, we, Dr Maha, myself and all those who are interested in the topic, can meet at the faculty and try to make a plan for data collection. Just let it be any time before Ramadan inshaAllah. Looking forewards to see you !!! 

In reply to Prof. Maha El Tantawi -

Re: 3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

by Deleted user -
أنا بشكر حضرتك جدا جدا يا دكتورة مها على الصبر الجميل ده :)
ووعد مننا ان حضرتك أول دكتور هيشوف المشروع ان شاء الله
المشروع مليان أفكار ع المدى القريب والبعيد كلها واقعية ( يعني مش من اللي بتحتاج فلوس ) ويارب تعجب حضرتك ونكون دايما عند حسن ظنك
وشكرا
In reply to Deleted user

Re: 3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

by Deleted user -
دكتور مها احنا بنقدر اهتمام حضرتك وقيامك بواجبك في الكلية علي الوجه الصحيح بس انا بوضح نقطة
مش كل مشاكلنا متعلقة بالفلوس ... متعلقة في الاساس بالمبادئ المترسخة في عقول كتير من الدكاترة في الكلية واللي بتكون عائق كبير قدام اي تعاون بيننا وبين الكلية
In reply to Prof. Maha El Tantawi -

Re: 3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

by Deleted user -
Dear Dr Maha

thank you 1st for your concern, as always :)

allow me please to comment on some points :

- About the research and stuff as I said earlier, I'm so much willing -as everyone else -to participate and I thank you so much for your ideas :)
you know what,nearly everyday since we last had our conversation,I used to check the site for any post from you with details about this !
can't wait !!
- I liked the way we were taught public health this year, though the subject wasn't interesting but the teamwork made things way better

-I feel somehow we were pre-judged ... I mean that you think we're just full of energy and want to complain for the aim of complaining.. but our conversation proves that we are seeking solutions and help..speaking of our dreams as well as our fears..and we need someone to listen to us, comfort us and lead us to the right path...

-correct me if I'm wrong, but i feel that -from your point of view- that working hard is the only solution for problems.. we see it in a different way... we see that working hard as well as criticising what's wrong are two ways essential together for being positive and having solutions to any problem...

I always have -and will- respect you and your sincere will to work hard thoughout all the circumstances...

I wish you feel-as I feel- the above comments are from students willing to see our college a better place and really having high hopes and dreams ..we care about our dreams as much as a mother cares about her child :)

Thank you :)
In reply to Deleted user

Re: 3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

by Prof. Maha El Tantawi - -
Dear Manar,
Just like you said, I believe hard work - the really hard kind of work that gives you no time- is a solution for many of the wrong things we suffer from. I know you as a group of students can carry your voice to wherever you want. My best wishes for success in this. Maybe from my perspective, this approach involves too much struggle and you are addressing the wrong adversaries.
I know that the world needs revolutionaries like most young people are. If I can understand this, I think you too as students can try to understand that there are many ways of doing the correct things. Thinking differently from the way you think does not mean others are wrong or that you should be on opposite sides or that you should withdraw or be disappointed and sad. From my point of view, the one thing people need most these days is to respect differences among themselves and learn to see how others see us. We can have a common objective, yet different paths to achieve it. We do not need to do the same thing or believe the same thing to be friends, do we?

By the way, YOU ALL DO HAVE ENERGY. The little bit of energy I have left, I try to keep to work. Maybe I am getting too old to start being a revolutionary now. Energy and revolution are not bad words, are they? smile
In reply to Prof. Maha El Tantawi -

Re: 3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

by Deleted user -
DR Maha
with all do respect you said " I see you people are over the exams and full of energy. If you want to spend your time complaining or feeling insulted and going all over again into a continuous state of revolution"
don't you think that this is a bit harsh , please recheck our facebook comments (those that we said spontaneously and without knowing that some one will read them ) you find that we agreed that the problem is from our side as it is from the teaching side , and if you read more of our comments you will find that we are truly and sincerely hope what is the best for our college (even if we are not going to benefit from it ) .
although that i am really sad with your reply especially that it comes from a person that i carry a great deal of respect to , yet i am ready to participate in those ideas that you said earlier .
thank's for your time
In reply to Deleted user

Re: 3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

by Deleted user -
Dear dr maha...i just want to thank u for everything u made for us....u r from the few ppl who give me hope in that college...u speak less and do much...and i want to tell u that the conversation i had with u affected me +vely alot...u let me think in a totally diff way ,stress on the potentials i've and believe that the change we seek wouldn't be fulfilled if we didn't change ourselves 1st...so many thanks for that conversation and for ur patience.,,and as i told u i'm ready to participate in the research activity

Best Regards
In reply to Deleted user

Re: 3rd year students' thoughts for a better tomorrow !

by Prof. Maha El Tantawi - -
Dear Esraa,
Very glad to have you in the team. Pls make the choice on the front page and check the 3rd year public course for the two studies. Let's see which attracts more people interested to work in it so we can start.
It would be very exciting to see the names of as many of you as possible along with Alexandria University in a publication listed in Pubmed, right?